My three days with Movable Type 4

June 7, 2007

I’d like to revisit this a little later, but I thought I’d keep a running tally of my questions about and frustrations caused by the Movable Type 4 Beta:

Where do I edit themes?
What are modules?
When’s the MT4 documentation going to be finished?
Will the MT4 documentation make more sense than previous versions?
Where’s my “PUBLISH” button?
Why did it take me over five hours to install this over the course of two days?
Why don’t bulleted lists work?
Why do I get an error when I “view published entry”?
Why won’t you publish individual archives?

I’m sure there will be more to come. If you’re interested in what some interaction design folks are saying about the beta, check out this thread from the IxDA discussion list.

{ 13 comments… read them below or add one }

Ms. Jen 06.07.07 at 9:56 am: I think that SixApart should have made this a closed alpha/beta until the major kinks are worked out. MT4 is not ready for a public beta.

Notes:
1) Much of the above is being discussed in the Pronet list.
2) Did you submit a bug report to http://movabletype.org/feedback.html
3) MT4 beta 1 is not even installing on my host, so I gave up trying after about 45 mins and sent a bug report.
4) For the rhetorical question you asked on Twitter the other day: why static publishing? I was running a private blog with WordPress last summer and by accident deleted the database when I was deleting another db. That is why I like Movable Type… ;o)

smiles, jen ;o)

p.s. Hope all is well in the great rainy north…
Nei 06.07.07 at 9:59 am: Why did it take me over five hours to install this over the course of two days?

Did you follow the installation video on their website?
Most common reasons for these problems are your Perl installation was just incomplete or your webserver not set up properly to run CGI scripts from anywhere.
While I can certainly see that one must get the impression that PHP scripts (and WordPress, therefore) are much easier to install, it is inherently a problem with the server configuration, and sort of difficult to fix on the MovableType/6A site. However, on a properly configured host, this should install in a flash.
I can hear you screaming “but other applications are so much easier” — well, I guess you have a point, but you could also say these applications are just lucky being written in another language (which is more often configured to work out of the box).
(Of course, you could equally argue that SixApart chose the wrong language to develop MovableType in.)
Cecily 06.07.07 at 10:23 am: Did you follow the installation video on their website?
The installation video wasn’t available until yesterday. I downloaded MT 4 the first day it was available, spent four hours with it that night, and an hour and a half with it the following day. By then I’d already installed the application, painful though it was. It would be a lot less painful if they (1) made the documentation available for MT4 at the same time the beta was released; or (2) made it clear to beta testers that the documentation for MT3 was sufficient enough to help you through an MT 4 installation (and I use the word “sufficient” carefully here).

I have used MT in the past, and on the same webserver. This particular web host has the most recent modules installed, and when I was finally able to install the application, the MT system check showed that all of the required modules were available. No, it isn’t the web server - it’s the installation process.

I’ve installed WordPress through my web host’s one-click install panel, and I’ve installed it locally on my MacBook using MAMP, and on an old iMac I have lying around, using Apache. I’ve set up FreeBSD from scratch on a computer before. Even setting up FreeBSD from scratch was less complicated — and better documented — than the MT4 installation.

I’m not jumping down 6A’s throat on this. I’m a Vox user, I was a very early MT fan from the very beginning — I switched from Greymatter to use Movable Type. I genuinely appreciate what the company is trying to accomplish, and I recognize that without their influence, blogging wouldn’t be as pervasive as it is today. But this? This was a nightmare. It was my nightmare, and nowhere did I say that this was a common experience (which is why this entry is titled “My Three Days with Movable Type 4″. I put it here as a word of caution for people who hadn’t tried to install the program before, and as a way of keeping track of the issues I’ve had as a beta tester in an attempt to help make the program work better — after all, that’s what beta testers do.
Nei 06.07.07 at 10:44 am: Neither did I mean to criticise you or declare you as incompetent.

But looking over the web, it certainly isn’t just your nightmare. A broad majority seems to acknowledge that MT is more difficult to set up.

You say that the installation process is at fault and quite painful. In this respect, an analysis of your problems and how you could resolve them to finally get the application installed might prove interestng to fellow fearless testers and also to identify how the MovableType software could further improve the installation process.

Maybe it could also help to reflect on how other applications do better in this regard.

The theory says “upload, chmod, keep clicking on next”, but obviously you must have run into some troubles during that process
By all means one needs to talk about the problems with the Beta, but keep in mind that it is not ready yet, so I personally feel that it is excusable to not have all the docs ready from the start and I believe the testers should also acknowledge this when putting beta software to a test.

Obviously, once the final product is released, the guides and documentation have to be available though.
j. brotherlove 06.07.07 at 10:48 am: I haven’t had any serious problems with MT4. That said, SixApart has been very clear that it’s a beta product (not intended for production). My installation was a breeze, btw; much improved from their previous method.

However, since the GUI is so much different, I had to slow down to figure out where everything had been moved in relation to previous versions of MT. There will definitely need to be some good documentation on this, an area they have been weak in. I wouldn’t expect MT4 documentation until close to the gamma release date.

As for your questions, something must not be configured properly with your install. I don’t have any of the problems you mention regarding bulleted lists, viewing published entries, etc.

I don’t use themes. But MT handles them using the StyleCatcher plugin (Admin/Plugins). I’m not sure if that’s working yet.

Modules are used to include shared data (like php, ssi includes). MT has had them for several versions (I swear by them). MT seems to be pushing them more with MT4.

Saving an entry with the status set to Published is the same as using a “Publish” button.

My biggest concern right now is speed. I’ll see how they address that in the upcoming months.
Cecily 06.07.07 at 12:48 pm: I think that SixApart should have made this a closed alpha/beta until the major kinks are worked out. MT4 is not ready for a public beta.

I agree with you, Ms. Jen, and I’ll be submitting bug reports shortly.

However, since the GUI is so much different, I had to slow down to figure out where everything had been moved in relation to previous versions of MT. There will definitely need to be some good documentation on this, an area they have been weak in. I wouldnâ€™t expect MT4 documentation until close to the gamma release date.

Say it with me, J.: Documentation, documentation, documentation! That’s all I ask. I know the’yre addressing it as soon as they can, so I’m going to give them the benefit of the doubt.

It’s till a pain in the tuchis, though.

You say that the installation process is at fault and quite painful. In this respect, an analysis of your problems and how you could resolve them to finally get the application installed might prove interestng to fellow fearless testers and also to identify how the MovableType software could further improve the installation process.

Yes, that’s the plan, Nei. I don’t think it’s fair to do any sort of analysis like this after only three days experience. I have an eye toward a more long-term analysis, with a bent toward answering the question “Is MT4 good enough to make me switch from WordPress?”

Saving an entry with the status set to Published is the same as using a â€œPublishâ€ button.

Yes, and no, J.. In WordPress, the steps are:

1. Type entry.
2. Publish.

In MT4, the process is more like this:

1. Click the “Config” link. Choose “Blog Settings”.
2. Select “Entries” from the left-hand navigation.
3. In the section labeled “New Entry Defaults”, set the Entry Status to “Published”.
4. Save changes.
5. Navigate to “Write Entry” and begin writing.
6. Look fruitlessly for a button labeled “Publish”. Scratch head in confusion.

My problem? Save !=Publish. To my mind, means holding a document in a static state until you are ready to do something else with that document - think of creating static web pages in your editor of choice. You save them to your hard drive, then you publish them to your web server. If I’ve set my default entry status to “Publish”, then the button at the bottom of th entry should say “Publish.”

Hm. Maybe I’ll make this last comment an entry of its own.
j. brotherlove 06.07.07 at 2:08 pm: I have limited experience with Wordpress but I believe you are comparing the it to MT4 (an acknowledged early beta) unfairly. If you want to type an entry and publish immediately with MT, you can.

When I log into MT4, right at the top there is a large, amber “Write Entry” button. After writing an entry, I hit save. Now, I prefer the default publishing status to be “Unpublished”. However, it’s just as easy to change the default status to “Published” in your blog settings so that the default action after hitting “Save” will immediately “publish” the entry to your site.

I do agree with your point about Save !=Publish. I’ve never had issue with it but perhaps the majority of users would prefer it.

And Ms Jen is right on the mark regarding one advantage of static publishing (having “hard copies” of your site). It’s also more straightforward (no url wrangling) and faster to load pages.
Cecily 06.07.07 at 2:24 pm: I believe you are comparing the it to MT4 (an acknowledged early beta) unfairly.

It might be unfair if I’m doing a feature by feature comparison, but I’m comparing experiences. Experiences are extremely personal and tailored to the person who’s actively engaged with the system at that moment. My experience is that when I set up WordPress for the first time, I didn’t have to tell the system whether I wanted to set a default status before I published an entry - I just published it and there it was.

We can make the argument for and against default publishing statuses — and I’m not going to argue about the value of this feature. I’ll concede that there are instances it might make sense to a user’s workflow to save first, publish second.

The point I’m trying to make is that is isn’t transparent enough, it isn’t easy to discover (unless you’ve had prior experience with MT), and therefore, it provides a barrier to use. To me, immediate means I can go in, write something and hit publish - not that I have to go in and tell the software that this is what I’d like to do. It’s a web publishing application. I want to publish. Why is it keeping me from doing that (albeit temporarily)? Why would I want to do something in six steps when I can accomplish the same thing in two on another platform?
j. brotherlove 06.07.07 at 2:38 pm: Certainly there are some configuration options for Wordpress, no? Every piece of software has them. The first time I used Wordpress, I hit publish and the entry immediately showed on the site - and I was horrified (I always edit afterward).

Essentially, MT4 seems like an update for current MT users and first-time bloggers. I don’t see people leaving Wordpress or ExpressionEngine (my favorite) to MT.

While we disagree on a couple of things I don’t want you (or anyone else) to think I discount your experience. I’m just providing a different POV.
Cecily 06.07.07 at 2:47 pm: Yes, there are configuration options in Wordpress, and some of them are quite extensive. But this one basic thing is something you have to turn off, not turn on. I just can’t wrap my mind around why a blogging application would want to throw up a roadblock to blogging.

I’m going to go out on a limb and guess that some of the changes they’ve made to MT4 are aimed at people whose sole responsibility is adding content, not blog maintenance. I’m no stranger to MT - I actually installed MT3.x back in early May, but deleted the installation after a couple of days because the documentation was making my head hurt.

And I know you aren’t discounting my experiences. I luh you, J.
Anil 06.08.07 at 1:39 am: “I just canâ€™t wrap my mind around why a blogging application would want to throw up a roadblock to blogging. ”

We’re throwing up an encouragement for editing!
*Please* do share all your wonderfully detailed and passionate feedback with us. It helps a lot, and your perspective is a useful one for us to hear from.

As to why the beta is as rough as it is, we wanted to put out an early beta at a point where the community could actually help shape the application with its feedback, instead of one of those betas where basically everything’s already been decided and your job is to just sniff out obscure bugs.
C 06.29.07 at 12:32 pm: What I’d really like to know (w/out installing it) is do you still have to rebuild?
Cecily 07.06.07 at 10:01 am: I wish I had an answer to that, C. I haven’t gone back to touch the installation in a few weeks. Now that I have a little time on my hands, I might try to spend some more time with it.

You must log in to post a comment.

Previous post: Why Canada (sorta) kicks ass

Next post: Meet me in HQ 450

My three days with Movable Type 4

What I'm Doing...

Archives

Topics

Tip Jar